I enjoy both LFS and rFactor, but in rFactor I can only get enjoyment out of my own cars. I feel many of the rFactor haters have not given it a real enough chance. I do play LFS and rFactor enough and have a love/hate relationship with both. 
There can be plenty of subtlety in the handling in rFactor, and while not perfect, neither is LFS at the moment.
rFactor is certainly NOT unrealistic per-se, but yes, 99% is poorly made content.... LFS is much better out of the box. But when talking about the pure driving experience, not the dodgy menus, weird settings and framerates or input lag.. Just offline testing at high fps on a system where it actually runs smoothly, I think I'd give rFactor the edge in handling over LFS, realizing that in some areas LFS might be a bit ahead, and in other aspects rFactor wins.
But for rFactor I have 2 or 3 cars, the 2234123424 mods are almost always rubbish.
There can be plenty of subtlety in the handling in rFactor, and while not perfect, neither is LFS at the moment. rFactor is certainly NOT unrealistic per-se, but yes, 99% is poorly made content.... LFS is much better out of the box. But when talking about the pure driving experience, not the dodgy menus, weird settings and framerates or input lag.. Just offline testing at high fps on a system where it actually runs smoothly, I think I'd give rFactor the edge in handling over LFS, realizing that in some areas LFS might be a bit ahead, and in other aspects rFactor wins.
But for rFactor I have 2 or 3 cars, the 2234123424 mods are almost always rubbish.
That'll never happen though!
Only F1 and NASCAR are probably profitable, perhaps WRC is.
People simply don't bother watching the other 99% of real racing, and even less will bother looking at a virtual race, no matter how good the action is! How many watch those LFS races commentated by Becky and Tristan? Its well produced, but a 'few hundred' might watch that live, perhaps on youtube a few thousand over time..
This commercializing / big online audience thing was predicted since 1999 when the West Bro's talked about the future of simracing at the European GPL LAN .. Since then nothing has really taken off all THAT seriously.
Only F1 and NASCAR are probably profitable, perhaps WRC is.
People simply don't bother watching the other 99% of real racing, and even less will bother looking at a virtual race, no matter how good the action is! How many watch those LFS races commentated by Becky and Tristan? Its well produced, but a 'few hundred' might watch that live, perhaps on youtube a few thousand over time..
This commercializing / big online audience thing was predicted since 1999 when the West Bro's talked about the future of simracing at the European GPL LAN .. Since then nothing has really taken off all THAT seriously.
Ajp, of course the whole idea behind iRacing is that the advances in physics modelling make an accurate track model more important. I'm sure iRacing has come up with a way to use 'normal' numbers of polygons with some underlying bumps model that comes close to the scanning they did.
It would be rather pointless to scan the tracks in such detail if it was just going to be reduced to a few thousand polies..
Wether they deliver this, well, we'll see. I think you're underestimating the ''room for improvement'' in realism.
It would be rather pointless to scan the tracks in such detail if it was just going to be reduced to a few thousand polies..
Wether they deliver this, well, we'll see. I think you're underestimating the ''room for improvement'' in realism.
XP services where a 'hot topic' years ago but it turned out that going as 'clean' as possible did free up some ram but did not increase system or game performance at all really. And these days you're bound to have at least 1gb of ram, making those lite versions of xp really quite pointless.
And if something no longer works after tweaking xp, who's at fault? LFS or the guy messin with 'teh windoze' ?
And if something no longer works after tweaking xp, who's at fault? LFS or the guy messin with 'teh windoze' ?
It is a car I quickly made for rFactor. (and while it is part of a huge new mod, its unlikely the first release will see these physics in place..)
(and while it is part of a huge new mod, its unlikely the first release will see these physics in place..)Ahh well its not Netkar Namie, although I agree the free version of Netkar had its strengths!
The attached video is a nice sim too btw! (sorry its zipped into a.. RAR..)
(sorry its zipped into a.. RAR..)a guaranteed fun thread!
The only scary thing is when people limit their views to one sim only. Saying one ''is the best'' while not being open to the others tends to become a religous bashing of everything not 'your sim'.. (Hey Tristan ;P)
In reality its impossible to compare properly because of too many factors. The physics engine itself will be very important, but the data you feed into it as well.
There is probably something to say for LFS, RBR, Nkpro and ISI sims, though ISI makes a poor show mostly because the games that use this physics engine have no clue how to use it / what values and curves are realistic.
ISI bashing used to be my hobby until I started to realize its not all bad when you enter proper numbers.. Who knows, LFS might not be made up of perfect numbers so it could improve even without a touch of source code!
Hard to tell really..
The only scary thing is when people limit their views to one sim only. Saying one ''is the best'' while not being open to the others tends to become a religous bashing of everything not 'your sim'.. (Hey Tristan ;P)
In reality its impossible to compare properly because of too many factors. The physics engine itself will be very important, but the data you feed into it as well.
There is probably something to say for LFS, RBR, Nkpro and ISI sims, though ISI makes a poor show mostly because the games that use this physics engine have no clue how to use it / what values and curves are realistic.
ISI bashing used to be my hobby until I started to realize its not all bad when you enter proper numbers.. Who knows, LFS might not be made up of perfect numbers so it could improve even without a touch of source code!
Hard to tell really..
Todds physics are slowly growing; first RC cars, now karts.. 2050 will be a good year!
The actual force the wheel can deliver does not change when you go from 450 to 900 degrees of calibrated lock, but you effectively add 'gearing' so the steering rack feels lighter. Especialy around the centre you tend to feel a much slower increase of force when you go from 450 to 900.
But, if you use 450 degrees and an in game front tyre lock of 15 degrees, it will feel exactly the same as calibrating 900 degrees and using 30 in game. (with LFS or rFactor + decent mod + realfeel)
But, if you use 450 degrees and an in game front tyre lock of 15 degrees, it will feel exactly the same as calibrating 900 degrees and using 30 in game. (with LFS or rFactor + decent mod + realfeel)
Perfect business model? Not sure about that.. Very good tyre model? Quite likely
BTW, great to see the 'devs' in this thread; its not a small task to develop and launch a product like this, so thumbs up!
For us 'true simmers' there is always room for something like an 'advanced' tab in the driver software to set some things; like a trade off for quicker response at the risk of some oscillations..
Logitech has been busy for ages and the price/performance of their G25 unit is really good. Many wheel manufacturers have failed / stopped trying to compete.. Hats off for that.
Edit: Shotglass, so you want them more than me? I'm being dumped?
For us 'true simmers' there is always room for something like an 'advanced' tab in the driver software to set some things; like a trade off for quicker response at the risk of some oscillations..
Logitech has been busy for ages and the price/performance of their G25 unit is really good. Many wheel manufacturers have failed / stopped trying to compete.. Hats off for that.
Edit: Shotglass, so you want them more than me? I'm being dumped?
There is a small FF program out that you can use for speed measurments if you have a microphone. You basically have a slider that you put full left, making the wheel turn full left, then click the most right of the slider, making the wheel turn right with full force.
With any sort of a microphone and audio software, you can check how long the noise lasts. This gives you time, and when you know it turns 900 degrees, you know the degrees per second.
I'll see if I can find it, would be interesting to have the DFP / 911 and G25 numbers. When you record 5 'lock to lock' runs in each direction and take the average time, it should be pretty much a valid measurment. Will upload later!
With any sort of a microphone and audio software, you can check how long the noise lasts. This gives you time, and when you know it turns 900 degrees, you know the degrees per second.
I'll see if I can find it, would be interesting to have the DFP / 911 and G25 numbers. When you record 5 'lock to lock' runs in each direction and take the average time, it should be pretty much a valid measurment. Will upload later!
Horribly inefficient oracle / java type custom software is probably the reason here.. Thanks for that info Ade, didn't know that.. Its eating ram like crazy
Mem usage higher than expected; what is this?
Heya,
If you look at the attached screenshot, you see that the processes use about 300 megabytes of ram, yet more close to 1000 is in use if you look at the bottom status bar!
How can this be? What is using my ram?
(actually this is at work, and got me wondering why a pc could be so slow when you'd expect it to just about keep going with 512mb ram..)
I"m puzzled!
If you look at the attached screenshot, you see that the processes use about 300 megabytes of ram, yet more close to 1000 is in use if you look at the bottom status bar!
How can this be? What is using my ram?
(actually this is at work, and got me wondering why a pc could be so slow when you'd expect it to just about keep going with 512mb ram..)
I"m puzzled!
Bragging about your G25 is a bit like guys bragging about their Golf GTi's... yeah it works, sort off, but its hardly spectacular. Good cheap tool. Nothing to brag about!
I see iRacing is quite popular here..
If, and only if the physics are really what they should be, i.e. miles ahead of anything else, then 13 a month is almost free. If that provides you with a few hours a week of simracing of a high standard, its incredibly affordable.
But the if is big, it must not be n2003.5 of course. Then again they wouldn't have needed 5 years to make some new cars and tracks for N2003... There is a good chance its core is very different.
If, and only if the physics are really what they should be, i.e. miles ahead of anything else, then 13 a month is almost free. If that provides you with a few hours a week of simracing of a high standard, its incredibly affordable.
But the if is big, it must not be n2003.5 of course. Then again they wouldn't have needed 5 years to make some new cars and tracks for N2003... There is a good chance its core is very different.
It is unlikely to beat a G25.. They use the same type (ish) of motor; from an RC car (not really making a lot of sense for high torque low rpm applications if you ask me..)
But they only use one.. This means likely that there is more gearing, meaning a slower spinning wheel..
The other two motors are vibration motors for in the wheel itself. It all sounds and looks quite tacky and crappy to be honest; my jaw would drop if this would outperform a G25.. It should be less noisy probably, but I just really doubt if the force and speed can be comparable.
But they only use one.. This means likely that there is more gearing, meaning a slower spinning wheel..
The other two motors are vibration motors for in the wheel itself. It all sounds and looks quite tacky and crappy to be honest; my jaw would drop if this would outperform a G25.. It should be less noisy probably, but I just really doubt if the force and speed can be comparable.
Oops this is not the 'racing videos' thread at all.. Thats where my post better go.. :S
What car is this exactly?
The "driver" is me, aged just about 4.. (pic taken in 83).. but what car is that exactly? Old formula 2? 3? :S I haven't seen one of those before and after really!
Note the flashy haircut.. I was a true 'puller' back then ..
Note the flashy haircut.. I was a true 'puller' back then ..
Yes they are going to change the gear ratios on the Corvette. Especially the Z51 pack for the normal C6 is very silly, close ratio until you enter fourth.. The Z06's box is fairly usable but its not a race-y box for sure..
They also reduced lift again, and it will corner at more than 1G. That puts Ferraris and Lambos to shame.
The Z06's box is fairly usable but its not a race-y box for sure..They also reduced lift again, and it will corner at more than 1G. That puts Ferraris and Lambos to shame.
It depends on the chosen components. If you'd get a 8800GT graphics card, it would need some airflow over the Accelero S1 cooler, any 500+rpm fan will do, and there should be just enough breathing space to slap one on. You can pretty much rule out any PCI / PCIe addon cards though then, but most things are on board anyway eh?
For a 7600GT type card, they are less hot, so you would never have to bother.
The Scythe Ninja is one hell of a cpu cooler that you can't beat at its price. The new Western Digital Greenpower series harddisks are the quiettest (at no real big cost of speed) drives available up to 1000GB.
If you then buy three of these:
http://www.pccasegear.com/prod3489.htm
or these:
http://www.pccasegear.com/prod6023.htm
with one going in the back of the case as exhaust, one going on the Ninja cpu cooler, and one stuck to the graphics card Accelero S1 cooler.. Thats all you need, it will cool anything dualcore and up to a 8800GT with ease. No front intake fans will be required.
The powersupply that comes with the 3480 case is high quality, and fairly quiet.. If after this build you'd still want less noise, you can consider upgrading it to a Seasonic S12 model (430Watts is plenty)..
I think you'd be verry happy with the performance and silence of such a system..
For a 7600GT type card, they are less hot, so you would never have to bother.
The Scythe Ninja is one hell of a cpu cooler that you can't beat at its price. The new Western Digital Greenpower series harddisks are the quiettest (at no real big cost of speed) drives available up to 1000GB.
If you then buy three of these:
http://www.pccasegear.com/prod3489.htm
or these:
http://www.pccasegear.com/prod6023.htm
with one going in the back of the case as exhaust, one going on the Ninja cpu cooler, and one stuck to the graphics card Accelero S1 cooler.. Thats all you need, it will cool anything dualcore and up to a 8800GT with ease. No front intake fans will be required.
The powersupply that comes with the 3480 case is high quality, and fairly quiet.. If after this build you'd still want less noise, you can consider upgrading it to a Seasonic S12 model (430Watts is plenty)..
I think you'd be verry happy with the performance and silence of such a system..
I'd got for an Antek NSK3480 case, amd or intel micro atx board (as long as it doesn't have any fans on it), Scythe Ninja cpu cooler, a Western Digital Greenpower harddisk, and a midrange gfx card that accepts the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1.
Buy some very low speed fans (Scythe sells them) and you can get away with fans <1000rpm. That'll be a capable and quiet system!
Buy some very low speed fans (Scythe sells them) and you can get away with fans <1000rpm. That'll be a capable and quiet system!
Will be a good test, the Z06 is loved by Tiff.. Wondering if it'll get the Tiff Stamp Of Approval (tm) as well!
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG